This is from Ben Witherington’s blog post. This is his defense of Luke 22.36-38, I don’t know if I agree with it yet, but I figured we could post it here, and we can benefit from it:
What about the famous text in Lk. 22.36-38 where Jesus seems to advise the disciples to go out and obtain a weapon? Again context is king here. Remember this is the same Jesus who: 1) advised that those who live by the sword will die by the sword and 2) who immediately put a stop to Peter’s violence against the high priest’s slave, and indeed reversed it’s effects by healing the man’s ear. So what is the meaning of this little story, taking into account the larger context of Jesus’ teaching? Vs. 37 is the key where Jesus quotes Is. 53.12—“he was numbered with the transgressors”. Jesus is saying to the disciples—you must fulfill your role as transgressors of what I have taught you!!! They must play the part of those who do exactly the opposite of what Jesus taught them in the Sermon on the Mount. The disciples become transgressors by seeking out weapons and then seeking to use them. This much is perfectly clear from the context for the disciples then go on to say “look Lord here is two swords”. They already have such weapons and Jesus responds in disgust to the fact that they are already transgressing his principles of non-violence by responding “that’s enough” (of this nonsense).
Clearly, Jesus knew that two swords would not be enough to hold off a Roman legion, so we must take his response as highly ironic not as straight forward. Either he says ironically “oh that will be plenty”, or more likely as I have suggested, he means “that will be enough” of this foolishness. Either way, there is absolutely no endorsement here by Jesus of his followers using weapons. Carrying weapons makes them fulfill the role of transgressors, as the citation of Is. 53.12 makes evident.
See a couple of comments on this subject here
By: sean on April 23, 2007
at 11:23 pm
I must say that I find this highly misguiding, people who preach that Jesus was a Pacifest do not preach the truth.
It is true that God, and thus Jesus, loves peace, and wants us to live in peace with one another, however Jesus himself shows us time when Peace is NOT the answer. An example of this is when Jesus whips those who are gambling in the Temple and using it as a Market Place, he even overturns the tables.
Jesus instructs Christians to carry swords to protect ourselves and more importantly to protect others. He teaches us to Love our Neighbours, and to Love our Enemy. Tell me, if our enemy is trying to kill our neighbour, how do we show our neighbour Love by allowing them to die. We do not, it is our job to step inbetween our enemy with our sword drawn and declare in the Name of Jesus that we Love him, but if he doesn’t stop, we will kill him.
Moses calls the Lord a Warrior, since Jesus is God, this means that Jesus is a Warrior, and when he returns he will deal death to countless millions of people, does this mean he doesn’t Love them? Ofcourse not! But in order to protect those who Love him, Jesus must do away with those who would harm them.
When Peter draws his sword and cuts the High Priest’s Slave’s ear off, Jesus does not stop him and tell him to get rid of his sword, rather he tells Peter to return his sword to his sheath where it will be ready for use when it is once again needed, he demonstrates this by announcing that he can summon all the legions of angels to come and kill all those who opposed him, however he will not because it would run counter to God’s Will, and thus he warns his Disciples, that those who draw their sword in THIS situation will surely die by the sword, as they will be working COUNTER to God’s will.
The old testament, which is God’s Testament is full accounts of God empower the Jews to Kill. So much so that each Jewish warrior was the match for 5 non-Jewish warriors.
I will leave this off by saying that the Bible tells us their is a Time to Kill, and no the Ten Commandments do NOT say thou shalt not Kill, they say should shalt not MURDER, and there in lies the difference.
Thanks for your time,
May God Bless you and Keep you.
By: Magnarr on February 17, 2008
at 10:55 am
Thank you for this good list of tough questions for those of us who are pacifists. Because your comment does not really have to do so much with this particular post. Therefore we will be moving this post to the “counter arguments” section.
Please click here for anyone who wants to make comments on this.
By: sean on February 17, 2008
at 3:19 pm
So where’s your scripture? You rely on personal belief, and rely on scripture too little. Christ wasn’t a pacifist but did he ever tell his Apostles to resist their oppressors? To be beaten for him, or killed for him is one of the greatest honor. You may defend yourself, but those that live by the sword die by the sword. Matthew 26:52 My God is bigger then any weapon you can create, Ecclesiastes 9:18 Wisdom is better than the sword. Isaiah 54:17 No weapon that is formed against you will prosper; And every tongue that accuses you in judgment you will condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, And their vindication is from Me,” declares the LORD. From Him, not you. He alone will exact judgment.
Micah 4:3 depicts a ’safe’ environment that God created by removing the weapons of war. Genesis 49:5-6 says to kill in anger is a terrible thing.
“We do not, it is our job to step inbetween our enemy with our sword drawn and declare in the Name of Jesus that we Love him, but if he doesn’t stop, we will kill him.”
-That is the EXACT same thing Peter thought, and Christ stopped him. Brother search your heart and ask God to give you compassion, forgiveness and to fill you with his Love. Nothing else matters.
By: Moses on March 20, 2008
at 11:49 pm
I thank God daily for sending those who are not pacifists to defend those of us who are. For truly without His sending them, we would be easy prey to all who’ve tried to wipe us out as seen throughout history. The pacifists are the first to go until someone who isnt a pacifist stands up and fights for us. Thank God for sending them. It’s easy to be a pacifist in a protected country. I pray for those in Iraq who are pacifists. Entire communities have been wiped out because they refused to fight. I thank God we do not have that problem in America or we would not be having this discussion right now. We’d all be dead.
By: Ray on April 2, 2008
at 9:22 am
Hey guys, I would really appreciate it if you added more scripture to your posts. Moses, I think your making a good point, but you need to add scripture so I can know for sure that what you say is the truth.
Magnarr, you make some pretty good points but there will always be the “Turn the other cheek”(Luke 6:27-31, Matthew 5:38-42) aspect to this topic. You can’t really bump that out as far as I can tell.
Lets start using a little more scripture eh?
By: Greenleaf on April 7, 2008
at 3:39 pm
I don’t believe Jesus commanded pacifism, but rather to only fight when being led by God. At the return of Christ, his saints will fight — this is clear from scripture. Pacifists are anti-war, but conscientious objectors are opposed to war waged by humans. When our captain returns, we will fight.
By: Jessica on April 10, 2008
at 1:18 am
Do you believe that Jesus commanded you to “love your enemies?” Is it loving to end someone’s life?
You say that we will be fighting when Jesus returns. I’m up in the air on this one. Do you have any biblical support for this assertion?
Even if we do fight in the final judgment, for now we have a clear mandate from our lord on how to live–peacefully. Jesus says, “all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword” (Matthew 26.52). Paul says,
By: sean on April 10, 2008
at 7:45 am
Greenleaf, maybe you would like to check out our Scriptures section
By: sean on April 10, 2008
at 7:48 am
The weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds…
For we war not against flesh and blood, but against powers and pricipalities, ..spiritual wickedness in high places.
I believe the message of nonviolence. The kingdom of heaven suffereth violence and the violent take it by force…doesn’t mean the physically violent, but the spiritually unstoppable! Heaven allows spiritual warfare, spiritual violence against the gates of hell. The gates of hell shall not prevail against the violent onslaught of the Christian warrior on his knees, violently attacking the kingdom of hell. But that is our only recourse to violence. Love your enemies, do good to those who despitefully use you. I think when Jesus said to love our enemies, that pretty much means don’t kill ‘em.
By: Fred Anderson on April 21, 2008
at 8:45 pm
I think that Isa 53:12 needs to be talked about more often when this passage is brought up. Ben W makes some good points that deserve fresh examination.
Dustin
By: dustinmartyr on May 12, 2008
at 8:36 pm
Witherington’s interpretation is both the one I have been taught most of my life, and is the one I have come to personally adopt as I’ve come to be completely convinced that to be a Christian is to be against all forms of violence (being an amateur student of Church history has also been very helpful in this regard).
The fact of the matter is that you will never find one place in the entirety of Scripture where a Christian has been called to take up arms or to use violence in any form. On the contrary, the clear witness of the New Testament is that by laying down our lives we show our obedience to God and live up to our high calling as disciples of Jesus Christ.
You can bring up the Conquest of Canaan, and the wars which David fought, you can bring all those examples up, however these have no bearing on what it means to follow the Crucified and Resurrected Lord. There still remains the fact that Christians have never been ordered by God to take up the sword, and have very clear teaching by the Master Himself that we are to love our enemies, to pray for those who hate and persecute us, and that whoever lives by the sword will die by the sword.
This cannot simply be an act of eisegesis here, because the clear and unanimous testimony of the entire ancient Church and of all the Holy Fathers is the same, and many of their statements can be found here on this blog. Even as late as the Council of Nicea, one who had cast aside his military belt but returned to military service is spoken of as “a dog returning to its own vomit” and that such an offense warrants expulsion from the Church and required demonstrateable repentance before one would be readmitted into fellowship.
Even by the end of the fourth century we have someone like St. Martin of Tours who absolutely refuses military service saying, “I am a soldier of Christ, it is not permitted of me to fight.”
I do not recall any Scripture that says the Saints will take up arms when the Lord returns, rather I am familiar with the Scriptures which teach that it is only God who can vindicate, and that He will exercise judgment upon the nations, that vengeance belongs to Him, He will repay. I cannot take up the sword, because such will always end in tragedy, however God–because He is God–can and will bring justice. And because He is a good, holy, and merciful God His justice will be far better than anything imagined by man. The great theme of the Revelation is just this, that ultimately–despite the trials and tribulations of this world–God will vindicate His Saints. The Lamb who was slain before the foundation of the world is the One who has conquered all worldly powers and all governments and all dominions and principalities.
But we do not hope for our enemies to be destroyed, as it is written, “I do not desire the death of the wicked man, but desire his repentance, so that he might live.” For the justice of God as revealed in Christ is a justice that reconciles sinners to Himself, it is that justice by which we who were enemies of God have become friends and children of God. That should be our great hope, to love our enemies and pray for them, to lay down our lives for them, knowing God will vindicate His saints even as He has vindicated His Only-begotten by raising Him from the dead; and to have faith the Same who has turned us away from our own destruction will act the same with those who hate us. We should pray for the salvation of our enemies, not their demise, and even more so, we should never rob from God His solemn role as the Judge of all flesh by taking up the sword to exact our own warped and sinfully corrupt notion of “justice”.
Violence is the lack of faith in the Just God of our Salvation.
By: xristocharis on May 20, 2008
at 3:57 am
Excellent points! Can I add just one theological guiding principle to what you have just said? There is no question that David and Joshua, etc., used violence and that this violence was approved by God. However, something remarkable happened with the advent of Jesus the Messiah. I think of it in terms of two massive events: outpouring of the holy spirit and resurrection.
The spirit is promised to be poured out repeatedly in the Old Testament (Isaiah 32.13-18; 44.1-5; Ezekiel 11.17-20; Ezekiel 36.24-28, 33-35; 37.12-14; 39.25 – 29; Joel 2.28 – 3.2). Each of these mentions of the spirit being poured out is eschatological (it related to the events of the end of time). Furthermore, resurrection was also seen as corporate and eschatological (Daniel 12.2; Ezekiel 37; Isaiah 25). Even when John the Baptist spoke of the baptism of the spirit that Messiah would bring, he was thinking about the end-time judgment (not Pentecost). Furthermore, when Jesus spoke of resurrection he also thought of it as a corporate event and attached to it the phrase, “last day” (John 6.39, 40, 44, 54; Luke 14.14; John 5.28-29; 11.24-25). So the resurrection and the outpouring of the spirit are eschatologically grounded concepts.
But, what if God, in his wisdom, decided to have an early resurrection? What if God, to show the world that his son really is the Messiah, raised him from the dead? What would that mean? Furthermore, when Jesus is about to ascend to the Father he tells them that they will be baptized with the spirit in a few days and to stay in Jerusalem. Where do the disciples’ minds instantly go? They think of the kingdom, to God’s bright future of ruling earth through a restored Israel led by his vice-regent, the Messiah. However, Jesus gently corrects this understanding by saying that the restoration of Israel is yet future (we don’t know the times or seasons) even so, the holy spirit will come soon. Here Jesus reaches into the future and pulls the spirit, an eschatological event, and promises that it will come early.
So what are we to make of an early resurrection and an early outpouring of the holy spirit? There is a lot that could be said but I will limit it to just a couple of notions. Resurrection means that God has vindicated his servant that the promised judgment/restoration (i.e. the kingdom) is really coming and that Jesus will be the judge/king of the age to come. Furthermore, resurrection teaches us that the power of death has been broken. Satan has been defeated and Christ is the victor. But, how did he win? Through a remarkable defeat—the cross—Jesus emerges the conqueror. Jesus absorbs all the hatred and violence of a world peopled with radically depraved and vengeful creatures and in so doing he ends the cycle. The myth of redemptive violence is squelched and the king conquers without raising the war cry. What an example for us to follow? We are to take up the cross and follow his path of nonviolent, self-sacrificial, outrageous love.
But, what do we make of the spirit? Why is the spirit of the kingdom here early? It must be so that we can live the lifestyle of the kingdom early, right? We are the future of humanity, the eschatological community, living the lifestyle of the future in the midst of this present evil age. We are those who have already beaten our swords into plowshares as a prophetic sign of the coming kingdom when all swords will likewise be melted down. We no longer study war but seek peace in every sphere of life. The rest of the world can get on board with this or find itself left behind in the ashes of a world that never made sense, never satisfied, never resulted in safety. The Christian community lives the life of the kingdom in the present in the power of the spirit because at one end, Jesus is resurrected, and at the other, he is coming again to establish God’s righteous rule for all.
The Old Testament saints are not guilty for their use of violence, they are just outdated. To go back to that sort of morality is to tacitly insult the cross, ignore the resurrection, and empty yourself of the spirit: three things we dare not do.
By: sean on May 20, 2008
at 8:12 am
I would agree with the non-violent stance for many reasons (too many to mention in a short comment). But here are a few comments on some of the scriptures mentioned so far:
The use of the sword by the Israelites seems to be a major justification for the argument of warfare by christians. But where did the swords come from? We have no evidence that God told them to gather swords when they left Egypt…in fact, Moses had to learn not to use the sword before he was even qualified to go back and deliver them. When they faced the Red Sea, with the Egyptian armies storming behind them, they were in fear…again, no evidence of swords or self-defense. Then, after the Red Sea, there is a brief comment from Scripture: “…and Israel saw the Egyptians dead upon the sea shore.” Exodus 14:30.
Then, shortly afterward the Israelites have swords and begin fighting. Where did they get them? Obviously from the dead bodies of the Egyptian soldiers. Why didn’t God stop them? Because He knew they lacked the faith to fully trust in Him, therefore He would “go with them the second mile.” He would allow them to use the sword, but would make it clear that the victory in the battle was not due to their strength but to His protection. And that is exactly what He tried to teach them.
All they had to do was to learn the lesson of faith, and put their trust fully in Him, realizing their own weakness and helplessness, and He would have defended them.
The evidence for this assertion is shown in the battle that Jehoshaphat fought, 2 Chronicles 20:12, wherein he prayed: “O our God, wilt thou not judge them? for we have no might against this great company that cometh against us; neither know we what to do: but our eyes are upon thee.”
How God must have longed for such a prayer of faith and finally it was made! What was His response? “Ye shall not need to fight in this battle: set yourselves, stand ye still, and see the salvation of the LORD.”
This is how the Israelites gained the victory over the Egyptians, and this victory was now to be repeated. Every battle in the Old Testament could have been fought and won in exactly the same way.
But once the Israelites took the sword of judgment out of God’s hands, they would have to administer it, in their own way. God would still guide them and try to stop them from going too far (ie. “an eye for an eye” instead of many eyes for an eye, as human revenge is often exacted).
But a lot of God’s glory would be veiled in the Old Testament…hidden by the unbelief of men, and their actions of unbelief.
By: Frank Zimmerman on July 15, 2008
at 3:00 am
I have one more comment regarding Jesus’ instruction to buy swords.
What needs to be seen here is that since Israel picked up the sword, shortly after the Red Sea, there were two swords that defended them: first, the sword of the Lord, which is the word of God; and second, the carnal sword that they carried in their hands.
Gideon expressed it well in his battle against the Amalekites when he exclaimed: “The sword of the LORD, and of Gideon!”
Now Jesus is the “word of God” (the “word was made flesh”). Therefore He is the sword of the Lord. But He was about to be put to death. Without the sword of the Lord, Israel would be left with only their own sword…practically defenseless.
It was this that Jesus was pointing to when He said, “he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.” In other words, “I, the only true defense of Israel, am about to be put to death. Therefore, woe to those who have no defense…let them buy a sword, for that is all they have left to defend themselves.”
And how terribly was that prophecy fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem by the Roman armies, about 40 years later.
The disciples didn’t catch the lesson until after the crucifixion…but they did learn it in the end, for we never find them attempting to defend themselves with weapons or force ever again.
By: Frank Zimmerman on July 15, 2008
at 3:12 am
Jesus’ disciples should have gone out and purchased the latest model of the AK-47. That would be funny. Hi hi Ha ha!! They would just wage war on Pontius Pilot and the Romans and kick their buts!
By: Jam Jar on September 3, 2008
at 10:37 pm
The Hebrews of 180 years before Christ insisted they must use the best weaponery to preserve their faith and the practice of Judaism. They insisted that the Sabbath was no longer a day of rest, that they should kill on the Sabbath (see Mark 3:4 for Jesus comments). The Maccabees fought the Syrians oppressors (and made an alliance with the superpower-to-be, the Romans for extra ‘protection’. And apparently they preserved Judaism. The ‘wisdom prophet’ said their violence was “of little help” (Dan. 11:34) in the teaching of wisdom. The stories of Daniel & friends all teach that faithfulness to God does not require state or revolutionary violence. (And the visions teach that God will control of history, not the violence we do.) The leader of the opposition to the Maccabees/Hasmonians may have founded the Essenes who transmitted the focus on teaching good and letting the fighting to God and his angels to Jesus. Jesus contrasted himself to the shepherds/thieves who kill after the ‘feast of lights’ celebrating the Maccabean temple restoration (Jn. 10). Judus Maccabeus rode a war horse into the city, but Jesus took a donkey victory ride into Jerusalem.
By: Dave Alleman, Harrisonburg, VA on September 18, 2008
at 8:04 am
Perhaps it would be helpful to quote the background of the donkey ride into Jerusalem:
In other words, Jesus understood himself to be the one who brings an end to violence and the one who establishes peace in the world. Obviously this has not yet been accomplished but it will when the Son of Man returns. Even so, as we live in this violence-obsessed age, we (the church) can live as a prophetic example of what is yet to come. We are already at peace with God, with ourselves, with our families, and even with our enemies.
By: sean on September 18, 2008
at 10:02 am
Jesus’ meaning of weapons is “spiritual weapons”
read Ephesians ch.6 sword of spirit means the word, HIS word is one of our most powerful weapons.
also, it does NOT say that Jesus whiped anyone in the Bible, but He did get angry, anger is an attribute of God. we can get angry, we are to not sin in our anger.
SUGGESTION: study your Bible
By: jamie jackson on October 15, 2008
at 4:34 pm
There is nothing pacifistic in the faith that is required to stand and let our Father fight and protect us …Jesus set the example when He himself never took His defence into His own hands but said …” I could ask my Father to send legions of angels to my defence”Jehovah set the example himself when He protected His own on atleast 3 occasions 1) the flood 2) the freeing of the isrealites from Egypt.3) Joshua :stand still and see the salvation of Jehovah …Am I wrong to beleive that my Father will come to my rescue , ? Would our Father not leave our hands clean of blood …Would we not be infringing on His sovereign right , if we were to take anothers life? The Kingdom Is like a mustard seed ,the more of us following the example of Jesus the less violence there will be …Or are we going to keep impaling the Christ a new on this topic???Jesus died for what He beleived in He did not Kill for what He beleived in … should we not Live the Kingdom in all aspects not pick and choose…?
By: wendy... on November 6, 2008
at 1:59 pm
We know that Jesus taught peace, and advocated a non-violent revolution where God was to be the one who brought vindication. So why were his disciples even carrying swords (2 swords according to Luke 22:38). So far, my best answer to this question is;
It’s one thing for Jesus to surrender to a crowd of armed men quietly without a fight if His disciples were not armed or if He was abandoned before surrendering. It’s another thing that Jesus with armed men Himself whom were apparently ready to die fighting (Peter drew his sword) to disarm His own disciples and diffuse the potentially volatile situation then surrender. Jesus’ teaching that His Kingdom is not of this world is even more highlighted when He could’ve fought fire with fire but chooses instead to lay down and surrender quietly
By: Aki Kawamata on March 30, 2009
at 9:13 pm